Curse

Yuna Matsumarui · Dec 21, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I've been working on some lame --- build to run save yourselves on my ranger..

this is what I've come up with.
my pvxwiki page

it's kinda lame though, as we only got 4 physicals in there.

now I've ripped the SY! ranger build from it's content since I'm running discordway on my own with henchies.

- barrage
- save yourselves
- save shot
- lightning reflexes
- never rampage alone
- edge of extinction
- For Great Justice!
- comfort animal.

just tried it out in Darkrime Delves HM (zaishen bounty) and it failed hard.
maybe because of the lack of condition/hexes from my part to fuel discord, maybe because R/W sucks, maybe because pets suck, and maybe because FGJ! can't be maintained.

I'd like some advice from you guys on this matter

(also, I know a dead pet drains your adrenaline, though another Bodyblocker seemed useful )

I've also tried whacky stuff like R/W with whirling axe and FGJ and SY! but that was even worse, so I got to the conclusion that a ranger should stick with Random Arenas or go full pve rangerway with loads of great dwarf weapons and barrage. agreed?

toocooltang · Dec 21, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Try bring triple shot, AOS, dwarven stablity, barrage, dshot, savage shot lighting reflexes, and sloth hunters.
.

Use triple shot for an insta charge on SY, maintain AOS to recharge FGJ, use dwarven + Lighting reflexes for a near constant +33% IAS and 75% block.

SY is very fragile as it only protects from High dmg eles and warriors so if you are facing alot of hexes your team can still die from degen. There is also alot of hexes that just hate on the physicals/shouts. I would bring heavy heavy hex removal for darkmine delves.

WhiteAsIce · Dec 22, 2009, 06:32 AM // 06:32

I run this:

Expertise 12+1+1
Marksmanship 12+1
=> Vampiric/Zealous 15^50 Flatbows of Fortitude
---
Barrage
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
"Save Yourselves!"
Asuran Scan or Technobabble
Lightning Reflexes
Favorable Winds
Sunspear Rebirth Signet

Now I will only run this if there is another bow user in the party, or if there will not be many bow-using foes. PI to blow up Ele foes, or TB to mess other casters. With LR on, I always Q-step after each Barrage to reduce attack lag.

Yuna Matsumarui · Dec 22, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

thank you both for replying

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

..

Use triple shot for an insta charge on SY, maintain AOS to recharge FGJ, use dwarven + Lighting reflexes for a near constant +33% IAS and 75% block.

SY is very fragile as it only protects from High dmg eles and warriors so if you are facing alot of hexes your team can still die from degen. There is also alot of hexes that just hate on the physicals/shouts. I would bring heavy heavy hex removal for darkmine delves.

triple shot = 3 three arrows = 3 strikes of adrenaline.

3+3(from FGJ!) = 6, not an instant recharge.

also, (as I've tried FGJ! + dual shot and triple shot) triple shot has a 10 second recharge, while your SY! last only 5 seconds (in my case)

meaning you will have to attack 4 times in 5 seconds, in order to charge SY! and then use triple shot+savage shot for an instant charge, then attack 4 times, then use tripple+savage which is pretty energy intensive.

bitchbar player · Dec 22, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

you are a ranger, use your primairy and all your energy problems are over.

Tenebrae · Dec 22, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Mantain SY! and help discord necros mmmmmm , i think your better choice is :
- IA : yes , range is NEARBY foes.
- Triple Shot
- SY !
- Asuran Scan
- Dmg Preparation/Rapid Fire ( if not Candies )
- Dual Shot ¿?
- Opt 2x
Barrage is better if you have someone to ball up mobs , if you are H/H , IA grants you more hits imo. Pack a Zealous Bow and some Candy ofc but the cheap hex part ...... better use a curses necro, asuran scan can drain your energy pretty fast if you are not careful.

toocooltang · Dec 22, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I normally dont use triple shot unless i see a big dmg spell coming like metor shower, often times I'll have a strike or two of adren so triple shot is good enough to full charge it. You are correct though its not a straight charge from 0 adren.

Riot Narita · Dec 22, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I've used Infuriating Heat to maintain SY! on my Ranger before. Works well... it's easily maintainable, but you have to beware of it helping enemy Warriors or Paragons. Choose carefully where and when you drop it. Ideally you don't want to be re-casting it mid-battle and SY! will drop while you're doing it. Use Volley against mobs, or Triple Shot against single targets. Needling shot can be good too if used well. IAS FTW (I normally use Pumpkin Pies to save a skill slot).

upier · Dec 22, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

I've been working on some lame --- build to run save yourselves on my ranger..

this is what I've come up with.
my pvxwiki page

This team build strikes me as kinda bad.
You mind sharing what you were trying to do with it and who of your friends needs to have a role in it? And then, we'll move on to heroes bars.
And we'll go from there.

Yuna Matsumarui · Jan 03, 2010, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

This team build strikes me as kinda bad.
You mind sharing what you were trying to do with it and who of your friends needs to have a role in it? And then, we'll move on to heroes bars.
And we'll go from there.

I'm sorry, my internet was dead for a while and I completely forgot about this page

well the thing is, when I was trying to play this team build, I wanted something else than regular duodiscord, as it's boring as hell. i noticed some physicalway builds on pvx so I felt like that was the direction I should go for some more variation in builds. so me as a Ranger, and my friend as a necro, tried running some. i wrote it down on my pvx page so he could see it as well.

problem 1: physicalway builds use a P/W for Save Yourselves!, which we didn't have, so I tried some gimmicky R/W with barrage for Save Yourselves which worked pretty well when I was under the effects of Dark Fury.

problem 2: order cannot be maintained for long periods of time by a necro primairy because of the nerf to masochism.

as I said before, I hate the whole abusive N/Rt healers, if I want healers, I'll go with Mo/* , for support go N/*, for additional partywide healing fo Rt/*, no RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up primaries for Soul Reaping. so in order to have better healers (Mo > Rt imo) they'd need additional energy management. so I wanted my friend to run BiP on his necro, so i could yell at him "Dunkuro needs moar energy management stupiud ******" so he would panic and just press 1 (BiP) :P. I noticed boonprot, which i think is pretty much the best monk build available, as it has heals + prots at the cost of energymanagement. but the energymanagement taken care of, it would be like.. gut? :P

but we decided to run physicals, and if you're running many physicals, you need Order of Pain for some damage increase, and Dark Fury for adrenaline. now as you've noticed there's also Infuriating Heat in there, that is because adrenaline isn't capped @ 100% , it is capped @ a higher % (when under the effects of IH and DF you only need 3 arrows to fuel Save Yourselves.)

but because you have to spam OoP and DF like mad my friend would run out of energy soon, despite him having Soul Reaping and SolS. but since I didn't want to run an orders dervish, I set him up for cultist's fervor, at the cost of BiP. now our monks failed pretty much because of the lack of e-management, so I decided it might be useful to have that as well. now the thing is, this would cost us another physical-slot. but as I figured that last necro hero could be utility, it might make up for it with channeling magic.
i ditched high blood magic because the breaking point for strip enchantment was 8, and that way we wouldn't need 12 blood magic for just 1 additional pip if energy regen. then I threw in some anti melee and condition removal for additional party support.

on myself and my ranger hero I used pets, which are lame, according to the B/P filosofy, didn't work out that well though. I put grasping earth on the earth shaker warrior because I noticed that heroes use it quite well, along with a 3hit-charged Earth Shaker, and yeti smash for some AoE dmg, then crude swing for additional adrenaline building, and pulverizing smash over Crushing Blow because of the availability of adrenaline.

it turned out a bit gimmicky, like a bunch of random stuff thrown together, especially winnowing for +dmg is whacky, especially since I'd have to quit spamming SY! for 5 seconds if I'd have to recast it during a fight.

also, i noticed how bad dunkuro was using Tease (despite that bar having a 'good' rating) so if you scroll down i've done some calculculations with other possibilities. also, the whole drain delusions would be because the orders necro bulked in energy because of soul reaping and cultist's fervor, so I though it might be a good idea to let him cast something like mind wrack on an enemy, so that dunkuro could drain it for a 16 enery gain at the cost of 5 energy, every 10 seconds.

I also was experimenting with Energy Drain over Tease since tease only cost dunkuro energy, instead of mass-rupting a mob and giving him plenty of energy to keep spamming his prots.

I've also been using Zhed as a ER protter lately on my mesmer. works fine, as long as he maintains his enchantments.

wow. wall of text, hope anyone reads this :P

upier · Jan 03, 2010, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Great! So we need to come up with a build for 2 players and 6 heroes, with one player being a ranger, the other a necro and both owning all chapters and GWEN.

Now, the first issue is that you have a ranger. The guy is a physical, but he's not melee. The reason why melee guys are godly is because they can run in and grab aggro and this makes everything easy peasy! So, I'd first decide if you want to abuse a secondary on your ranger and go into melee or if you want to play with a bow.
If you go into melee - you have the options of running a warrior weapon and that gives you access to SY! or you have the option of going assassin and that gives you access to shadow stepping.
My assassin normally runs this:

As you can see, he doesn't use SY (which means you could run something similar on your guy also). The reason is simple - shadow stepping allows me to put an insane distance between me and my team when I aggro and that allows me to make all foes focus on me. No SY! is needed in such cases because when you do things right, you should be the only person getting hit.
On the other hand, you could be going warrior secondary and that would give you access to SY!.
What going melee also does is grant you access to Strength Of Honor abuse. +20 damage on EVERY hit is mental.

If on the other hand you want to stick with a bow - then you have the problem of potentially needing a wall. If you go melee, you are able to make the foes focus on a "tank" (which should be a high damage dealing physical that is under constant Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, Shield Guardian, ...), removing the chances of the rest of your team getting hit. Your teammates stay back while the tank aggroes (or shadow steps into the mob) and HM turns into Pre-searing. Without a tank, when you aggro, the foes will go after a whole team and in HM, where you have massive AoE this can turn deadly. So when you aren't running a tank - I would probably suggest running a minion bomber. That way a bunch of damage is directed towards the minions, plus they will also body block the foes nicely.
I would also suggest running SY! in this case. No pets, no spirits. Spirits would only make sense if you could go ritualist secondary for Summon Spirits, but without it all you do is waste 10 secs activating spirits and considering you can't move them - they'll be useless after the battle is over.

Now since you have a necro friend with you - I would suggest him looking into the MoP nuker.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/A_Mark_of_Pain_Nuker
I would suggest putting Great Dwarf Weapon into the optional PvE slot. GDW + SoH will increase the damage of EACH hit of a melee physical guy around +40 with the chance of a KD! Now Imagine you run something like Whirlwind Attack which will turn that damage into AoE ...
Now, if you stick with a bow, and bring a wall - that means your minions will also trigger stuff like Barbs and MoP - adding some insane damage to the thing also.

And now for the heroes. The problem is that melee AI sucks. Not only do they need to run to the target to start dealing damage and switch targets, even stuff like a bit of AoE damage will make them mental. So, if you want to be using physicals - paragons are a very decent addition. They offer some very nice party support options, the necro can also buff them with GDW (potentially even the Ebon Battle Standard Of Honor) so their damage would also be pretty darn decent (keep in mind that the damage ward - would be a very nice addition if you decide to run a bow ranger)!
I used to run this on my para:

They're on Fire! mixed with Blazing Finale and GFTE and TPiS means a very decent damage reduction while providing other benefits. If you aren't running SY! you could also run Stand Your Ground! giving a lovely +24 armour to everyone. These guys would then also trigger MoP, Barbs and considering they have heavy armour - woudl also take less damage when they would get hit - which is a massive bonus because we are dealing with stupid AI.

An ER protter is just too good of an option to be left out.
A healer.

And that means you are at 6 or 7 party members, which means you still have room for some options that give you the things you need. You'll probably want some condition removal, hex removal, maybe some ench removal, potentially a spirit spammer with Splinter Weapon (weapon spells should be on any physical bar - personally I run 2 sources of Splinter on my assassin because I want to be covered with it at ALL times!) and AR, maybe even something like Air of Disenchantment to completely remove enchantments from the game, heck you could even run an orders dervish for some additional healing and damage - but you can switch around those slots depending on what you need in a specific area.

Now, I'd suggest you decide what you want to run - would you run melee on your ranger, is there anything you can't run because you are missing chapters, do you have a preference to anything, do you need a build that is variable enough so that you can add random people or more friends, ... and I am pretty sure the guys here would give more specific info on what to run.

(Oh and there is no reason to go to 15 in Expertise. The energy breakpoint is 14 and Lightning reflexes also has the same duration at 14 as it does at 15.)

Yuna Matsumarui · Jan 07, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Upier! I'd also like to thank you for changing your avatar. the other one was such an annoyance :P

now for the builds, I'm currently doing more stuff on my mesmer than on my Ranger because I noticed the dmg output in HM of a ranger being lame. the parabuilds look viable and fun to play, with 2x Infuse health transfer in case im messing up, though the whole hero/henchman as healers part might not work for me since I'm doing most of my vanqs HM stuff etc alone, and Henchman healing sucks.
the thing is, when I was running an motivation henchman he wouldn't be really effective because of the attacks needed to trigger adrenaline to activate chants. I thought TPiY! + energizing finale would be good synergy, but it isn't. the hero would be doing nothing but spamming Energizing finale on itself (since heroes use energy skills on allies below 20 energy, and para's always have around 20-25 energy) rendering itself useless to the rest of the party. because I also gave it aria of restoration etc. he didn't attack enough to fuel it's adrenaline, so TPiY wasn't maintained, even worse - it would be active for only like 30% of the time.
ofcourse, I could use this when party'ing with friends who would take healers, but that isn't really a good idea since I'd have heroes with specific rune & equipment setups only suitable for co-op play.

the assassin build might work, though an energy has much larger energy issues than an assassin if spamming shadowsteps.

I've been running
Assassin's Promise
Dark Prison
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
1-2-3-4-5 really + 3 optionals, AP and jagged strike would trigger discord I figured, but since mobs tend to be all over the place I had to spam Dark Prison to be effective (do dmg to stuff before it's blown up by 3x discord) but I ran out of energy pretty quickly.

also, I've ran R/W with Whirling Axe @ Gate of Pain, to tank shiro while my party stayed in the shadows. whirling axe + FGJ + stances worked good as a tank, but my damage output was pathetic. I didn't have strength or SoH to boost my dmg output, and since I was running discordway I didn't want to pressurize my heroes' energy.